Many years ago I went to Paris with a couple of friends to watch Eng v Fr at Parc des Prince, to cut a long story short we couldn't get in and went back to the centre of Paris (around Rue St. Denis) to find a bar with a TV. We ended up in a place that also had a Tote style betting facility in the corner and many locals using it vociferously while watching the horde racing on the TV.
We had several rounds at a table and when it came to kick off time we asked the barman to switch to the Rugby, which he did. This caused consternation among the betting fraternity but the barman just shrugged and pointed to the large number of empty glasses on our table, and the fact that the locals were not really drinking much. The game started and France were doing well, especially the winger Emile Ntmack who I think scored at least twice. By this time the locals, many of whom were also of West African decent, became instantly converted to the game of Rugby Union.
We left some time later to lots smile and handshakes, especially from the barman.
Merci! I love this anecdote. The one who drinks the most gets to choose what's on TV! As a former rugby player myself, I'm not surprised the rugby fan came out on top.
I like the idea behind this article, and the cultural pointers are very useful, but it just absolutely reeks of ChatGPT, which makes me doubt the usefulness of the content...
" Confident. Natural. No tourist energy."
"and suddenly you stop sounding like someone translating from English in their head."
"If you end up drinking with them, the rules shift."
"and it is a social contract, not a suggestion. There are codes. Rituals. An honor system. Even here, especially here."
We'd much rather read your actual writing style than ChatGPT, it's tedious when you know how to notice it. Nothing wrong with using it for ideas, or structure, but the hallmarks of AI stick out like a sore thumb.
On rule one, isn't 'un demi', or 'un pinte' just slightly less vague than 'une bière'? It doesn't seem much better than “one food, please.”
Thank you for your feedback! You’re absolutely right that I use AI for translation and proofreading. My English isn’t nearly good enough to write everything like that on my own but I wish! I’m just a French coach, after all, not an English writer.
If you’d like to see my real writing style, have a look at my short stories… they’re in French. 😉
That's fair, I appreciate the polite response, apologies if I was a bit harsh. I suppose you could write in French and translate it all using a tool perhaps? I do really like the article, I just notice it immediately and then find it hard to read!
I will check them out but my French is nowhere near as good as your English!
If you ask for a beer in England you'll immediately be asked which one. And even if you ask for a bitter, say, you may well be asked if you want a pint or a half. So specifying un demi or un pinte seems equally sensible. Not that I've ever asked for un pinte, so maybe that argument doesn't work!
When I did my assistante year (way back in the depths of the 1990s) in Haute Savoie you ordered a pint by asking for 《un sérieux》(or maybe it was 《une sérieuse》?), which is what I would drink when out with my boyfriend, and my dad, when he came to visit, but when out with my teacher friends it would be《un demi》.
And, in the small town where we lived (Bonneville), the latest the bars stayed open was 8pm. We tended to drink at home and would buy multi-packs of the really small bottles of beer and would keep a few in the fridge, along with a bottle of cheap rosé.
Thanks for sharing these nice memories. You're right, un sérieux is another name for a pint in the Lyon area. There are also other regional variations, but they seem to be gradually disappearing. I've never heard most of them myself. 😊
I remember holidaying in Brittany in the 70s where my friend, who had spent a year there as assistant always ordered serieuses. I assumed that was common throughout France and in my many visits thereafter did the same, at least until a pinte became too much in one go.
The word pinte [pint] is another old French word that English borrowed, and which has now crossed back over the Channel into France.
It first shows up around 1200, in Old French, simply meaning the contents of a measure.
Under the Ancien Régime, the pinte was a standard liquid measure, used mostly for wine — though its actual size depended on where you were. In Paris, it came to exactly 0.93 liters and split neatly into two chopines. Other towns, like Orléans or Saint-Denis, kept their own local versions.
Then came the Revolution. With the metric system introduced in 1795, all these old local measures — the pinte included — were swept aside in favor of the liter. The word vanished from official use, at least for a while.
It only came back in the 20th century, borrowed once again from English pub culture — this time stripped of its old legal meaning, just a word for a glass of beer.
These rules would also work in most Irish British and Irish pubs. Pub staff are professionals, treat them like you would treat any accountant or lawyer and you will have a great Time.
Thank you, Timothée for your insightful advice. I’m English and living in the United States. The last time I was in France (Paris) was in 1990, so, it’s been a while. I picked up a smattering of French in school and via an evening class.
I am far from fluent.
However, I am particularly proud of the fact that when a beautiful young woman asked me for directions outside the Musée d'Orsay, in my very bad French I managed to apologize to her, explain that I did not fully comprehend what she was saying, that I was an English tourist, and that I only spoke a few words of French … and remarkably, she understood what I was saying!
Even if I never set foot on French soil again (which I hope won’t be the case), I will go to my grave a happy man knowing that I managed to navigate that brief exchange.
Honestly, that's what learning a language is all about. Not perfect grammar, but those little moments when you somehow manage to connect with someone. And the fact that you still remember that exchange more than 30 years later says a lot. 😊
Gary, I so enjoy your comment and my experience is similar. My wife and I recently went to Italy, our first overseas trip. I spent about 6 months learning as much italian as I could, which was interrupted by work (life gets in the way).
I had interactions with waiters, tour guides, and asked for and received directions in Italian. An online test rated my knowledge of the language as "advanced beginner" but being able to carry on basic conversations was amazing. I will remember those interactions for decades. Those who say that AI can do that and there is no need to learn languages just do not understand.
Learning Croatian now for our next trip, with a trip to France planned next.
My husband, so confident that he can say “a beer and an orange juice please” in at least eight languages, is going to panic when he reads this. I’ll make sure we both study it, thank you!
Haha, if he can order a beer and an orange juice in eight languages, he's already an expert. Learning to ask for "un demi" will simply take his confidence to the next level! 😄
Je passe beaucoup de temps à explorer la scène de la bière ici à Rennes. C'est robuste, une des raisons pour lesquelles nous avons choisi de nous installer ici. (Mon mari est un écrivain de bière à la retraite et je suis juge de bière certifié.) J'ai noté que les bars proposant de la bière artisanale nécessitent un peu plus de spécificité dans le processus de discussion et de commande. Si les gens souhaitent découvrir la bière artisanale française, il vaudrait la peine de se familiariser avec une partie du vocabulaire de la bière. La qualité de la bière artisanale française est très variable. Vos conseils pour choisir un Belge par défaut sont très précieux.
Say whatever you want and can in French and smile, gesticulate and show. Then smile again. Tell them your french is little. Smile.
They will love and help you. Don't make it too complicated. Smile. And different from other countries: Look straight in the eye. Even in those of that beautiful young waitress. Smile. She will look back at you just that second longer, smiling. That will make both of you very comfortable.
Yes, a smile always helps! But if you say « un demi » or « vous avez quoi en pression ? », you'll instantly earn some points with the waiter... and perhaps even more with the charming waitress. 😉
Your request for accounts of our experiences ordering drinks in France whether good or not so good reminded my of mine a few years ago when I arrived at the Gare de Nord hot foot from the Eurostar and anxious for a proper French bière. Never mind about the fact that it was only 10.30 french time it had been mine and my late husband’s habit to have a beer on arriving on French soil and though I was now perforce travelling without him, I was determined to continue the tradition.
So I repaired to the nearest bar, sat myself down at a table and after the usual pleasantries asked for “une pression s’il vous plait”. Now though my last school French lesson was many many years ago, one thing I was taught rigorously and which has always stayed with me is French pronunciation and this is a phrase that I had long had off pat. So I was somewhat nonplussed some five minutes later to be presented with a typical French breakfast of half a baguette, a croissant and a cafe au lait.
The waiter must have seen my somewhat shocked expression for he then asked if anything was wrong. “J’ai commandez une pression, monsieur” I believe I said at which point he turned on his heel and only a few seconds later returned with my beer doubtless shaking his head at the peculiar habits of the English.
So I was able to continue our tradition as well as enjoying a pretty good second breakfast.
Perfect advice and I agree it all works perfectly - even when we’re just drinking morning coffee. We take turns paying for each other. As a small woman and light drinker, I ask for un galopin. It seems to mean small beer and comes in a smaller glass than the demi.
Many years ago I went to Paris with a couple of friends to watch Eng v Fr at Parc des Prince, to cut a long story short we couldn't get in and went back to the centre of Paris (around Rue St. Denis) to find a bar with a TV. We ended up in a place that also had a Tote style betting facility in the corner and many locals using it vociferously while watching the horde racing on the TV.
We had several rounds at a table and when it came to kick off time we asked the barman to switch to the Rugby, which he did. This caused consternation among the betting fraternity but the barman just shrugged and pointed to the large number of empty glasses on our table, and the fact that the locals were not really drinking much. The game started and France were doing well, especially the winger Emile Ntmack who I think scored at least twice. By this time the locals, many of whom were also of West African decent, became instantly converted to the game of Rugby Union.
We left some time later to lots smile and handshakes, especially from the barman.
Merci! I love this anecdote. The one who drinks the most gets to choose what's on TV! As a former rugby player myself, I'm not surprised the rugby fan came out on top.
Des conseils simples, pratiques et utiles. Vous avez peut-être sauvé la santé mentale de plus d'un(e)👏👏
...surtout par les temps (et les températures!) qui courent.... A la vôtre!
Lex
Ahah, merci ! Commander un demi ne devrait pas être stressant ! 😥
I like the idea behind this article, and the cultural pointers are very useful, but it just absolutely reeks of ChatGPT, which makes me doubt the usefulness of the content...
" Confident. Natural. No tourist energy."
"and suddenly you stop sounding like someone translating from English in their head."
"If you end up drinking with them, the rules shift."
"and it is a social contract, not a suggestion. There are codes. Rituals. An honor system. Even here, especially here."
We'd much rather read your actual writing style than ChatGPT, it's tedious when you know how to notice it. Nothing wrong with using it for ideas, or structure, but the hallmarks of AI stick out like a sore thumb.
On rule one, isn't 'un demi', or 'un pinte' just slightly less vague than 'une bière'? It doesn't seem much better than “one food, please.”
Thank you for your feedback! You’re absolutely right that I use AI for translation and proofreading. My English isn’t nearly good enough to write everything like that on my own but I wish! I’m just a French coach, after all, not an English writer.
If you’d like to see my real writing style, have a look at my short stories… they’re in French. 😉
That's fair, I appreciate the polite response, apologies if I was a bit harsh. I suppose you could write in French and translate it all using a tool perhaps? I do really like the article, I just notice it immediately and then find it hard to read!
I will check them out but my French is nowhere near as good as your English!
Yeah, I guess AI makes things easier, and it’s nice to get feedback without having to ask for it.
Maybe I’ll spend more time improving my writing when Substack starts paying for itself. For now, I need to focus on what pays the bills. 😉
And thank you for the kind words about my English!
If you ask for a beer in England you'll immediately be asked which one. And even if you ask for a bitter, say, you may well be asked if you want a pint or a half. So specifying un demi or un pinte seems equally sensible. Not that I've ever asked for un pinte, so maybe that argument doesn't work!
I
Lessons/tips that are actually useful (i.e. the dos and dont’s of ordering a beer 😂👍🏻🍻
(Accidentally hit “post” before I’d finished above). That was a great read. I may have to upgrade my free subscription!
Merci ! Next time: un demi ! 😊
When I did my assistante year (way back in the depths of the 1990s) in Haute Savoie you ordered a pint by asking for 《un sérieux》(or maybe it was 《une sérieuse》?), which is what I would drink when out with my boyfriend, and my dad, when he came to visit, but when out with my teacher friends it would be《un demi》.
And, in the small town where we lived (Bonneville), the latest the bars stayed open was 8pm. We tended to drink at home and would buy multi-packs of the really small bottles of beer and would keep a few in the fridge, along with a bottle of cheap rosé.
Thanks for sharing these nice memories. You're right, un sérieux is another name for a pint in the Lyon area. There are also other regional variations, but they seem to be gradually disappearing. I've never heard most of them myself. 😊
About Sérieux and other regional variations:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DG-xnVRtDtQ/
I remember holidaying in Brittany in the 70s where my friend, who had spent a year there as assistant always ordered serieuses. I assumed that was common throughout France and in my many visits thereafter did the same, at least until a pinte became too much in one go.
I quite like the word sérieux [serious].
The word pinte [pint] is another old French word that English borrowed, and which has now crossed back over the Channel into France.
It first shows up around 1200, in Old French, simply meaning the contents of a measure.
Under the Ancien Régime, the pinte was a standard liquid measure, used mostly for wine — though its actual size depended on where you were. In Paris, it came to exactly 0.93 liters and split neatly into two chopines. Other towns, like Orléans or Saint-Denis, kept their own local versions.
Then came the Revolution. With the metric system introduced in 1795, all these old local measures — the pinte included — were swept aside in favor of the liter. The word vanished from official use, at least for a while.
It only came back in the 20th century, borrowed once again from English pub culture — this time stripped of its old legal meaning, just a word for a glass of beer.
Oh, that’s fascinating. (Though also I now feel super old!)
These rules would also work in most Irish British and Irish pubs. Pub staff are professionals, treat them like you would treat any accountant or lawyer and you will have a great Time.
Exactement !
Thank you, Timothée for your insightful advice. I’m English and living in the United States. The last time I was in France (Paris) was in 1990, so, it’s been a while. I picked up a smattering of French in school and via an evening class.
I am far from fluent.
However, I am particularly proud of the fact that when a beautiful young woman asked me for directions outside the Musée d'Orsay, in my very bad French I managed to apologize to her, explain that I did not fully comprehend what she was saying, that I was an English tourist, and that I only spoke a few words of French … and remarkably, she understood what I was saying!
Even if I never set foot on French soil again (which I hope won’t be the case), I will go to my grave a happy man knowing that I managed to navigate that brief exchange.
Honestly, that's what learning a language is all about. Not perfect grammar, but those little moments when you somehow manage to connect with someone. And the fact that you still remember that exchange more than 30 years later says a lot. 😊
Gary, I so enjoy your comment and my experience is similar. My wife and I recently went to Italy, our first overseas trip. I spent about 6 months learning as much italian as I could, which was interrupted by work (life gets in the way).
I had interactions with waiters, tour guides, and asked for and received directions in Italian. An online test rated my knowledge of the language as "advanced beginner" but being able to carry on basic conversations was amazing. I will remember those interactions for decades. Those who say that AI can do that and there is no need to learn languages just do not understand.
Learning Croatian now for our next trip, with a trip to France planned next.
My husband, so confident that he can say “a beer and an orange juice please” in at least eight languages, is going to panic when he reads this. I’ll make sure we both study it, thank you!
Haha, if he can order a beer and an orange juice in eight languages, he's already an expert. Learning to ask for "un demi" will simply take his confidence to the next level! 😄
My kind of language advice. Merci beaucoup et santé!
Avec plaisir ! À la tienne
Je passe beaucoup de temps à explorer la scène de la bière ici à Rennes. C'est robuste, une des raisons pour lesquelles nous avons choisi de nous installer ici. (Mon mari est un écrivain de bière à la retraite et je suis juge de bière certifié.) J'ai noté que les bars proposant de la bière artisanale nécessitent un peu plus de spécificité dans le processus de discussion et de commande. Si les gens souhaitent découvrir la bière artisanale française, il vaudrait la peine de se familiariser avec une partie du vocabulaire de la bière. La qualité de la bière artisanale française est très variable. Vos conseils pour choisir un Belge par défaut sont très précieux.
Un écrivain de bière et une juge de bière certifiée qui lisent mon article, j’ai la pression ! 😄
Say whatever you want and can in French and smile, gesticulate and show. Then smile again. Tell them your french is little. Smile.
They will love and help you. Don't make it too complicated. Smile. And different from other countries: Look straight in the eye. Even in those of that beautiful young waitress. Smile. She will look back at you just that second longer, smiling. That will make both of you very comfortable.
Yes, a smile always helps! But if you say « un demi » or « vous avez quoi en pression ? », you'll instantly earn some points with the waiter... and perhaps even more with the charming waitress. 😉
Your request for accounts of our experiences ordering drinks in France whether good or not so good reminded my of mine a few years ago when I arrived at the Gare de Nord hot foot from the Eurostar and anxious for a proper French bière. Never mind about the fact that it was only 10.30 french time it had been mine and my late husband’s habit to have a beer on arriving on French soil and though I was now perforce travelling without him, I was determined to continue the tradition.
So I repaired to the nearest bar, sat myself down at a table and after the usual pleasantries asked for “une pression s’il vous plait”. Now though my last school French lesson was many many years ago, one thing I was taught rigorously and which has always stayed with me is French pronunciation and this is a phrase that I had long had off pat. So I was somewhat nonplussed some five minutes later to be presented with a typical French breakfast of half a baguette, a croissant and a cafe au lait.
The waiter must have seen my somewhat shocked expression for he then asked if anything was wrong. “J’ai commandez une pression, monsieur” I believe I said at which point he turned on his heel and only a few seconds later returned with my beer doubtless shaking his head at the peculiar habits of the English.
So I was able to continue our tradition as well as enjoying a pretty good second breakfast.
That’s a great anecdote, thank you for sharing. I like the idea of having a beer upon arriving on French soil. I may continue the tradition too.
Be my guest, Timo!
Useful thanks
Very nicely written though using the subjunctive can come across as trying a bit hard, in my experience.
The only thing I’d change is that, when walking into the bar, I’ve tried to adjust my greeting if the crowd is not just all men.
“Bonjour messieurs-dames”. Seems to do the job.
Perfect advice and I agree it all works perfectly - even when we’re just drinking morning coffee. We take turns paying for each other. As a small woman and light drinker, I ask for un galopin. It seems to mean small beer and comes in a smaller glass than the demi.
How can you tell that a beer name sounds Belgian ? (A very intrigued Belgian asking 😅)
Ahah. Les bières qui ont un nom bizarre ! 😉